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Send to FriendsPublish Date: 08 February 2010 - 11:12
News ID: 1310
From Ambassador to Spy in an Islamic Country
Canada's Taylor, Former Canadian Ambassador to Tehran, details cooperation with CIA
Q. How were you informed about the US embassy take over?
Mr. Taylor. Those days the radio was the best function… the television wasn't really a functional source… so the radio and word of mouth and telephone calls all of Tehran knew within hours.
Q. Who were the phone calls coming from?
Mr. Taylor. Other ambassadors, some of the press who were still there. Our Iranian friends who were still there, most of them had left, but none from the Iranian Foreign Ministry.
Q. Who were the phone calls coming from?
Mr. Taylor. Other ambassadors, some of the press who were still there. Our Iranian friends who were still there, most of them had left, but none from the Iranian Foreign Ministry.
Q. So it's a normal Sunday and then you basically hear that there has been takeover of the US embassy. What happened then?
Mr. Taylor. Well as it worked out the Soviet Union had a national day on Monday. I think it was military day, the anniversary of some note and everybody was invited, all the diplomats. So, at that point everybody had a view.
Mr. Taylor. Well as it worked out the Soviet Union had a national day on Monday. I think it was military day, the anniversary of some note and everybody was invited, all the diplomats. So, at that point everybody had a view.
I think the consensus was that one way or the other this would be sorted out. Maybe Khomeini would step in and say enough or maybe Yazdi who was the foreign minister would sort it out as he did last time.
And, then Ramsey Clarke at that time had been sent as an envoy, he was coming on his own. The feeling was this was going to sort itself out.
Q. Was that his feeling as well?
Mr. Taylor. Ramsey Clarke, he never made it. Khomeini said that I am not interested in him why should he be allowed to come in the country.
Q. Was minister Yazdi present at the anniversary celebrations.
Mr. Taylor. No, I don't think so. I don't think the Iran… I think there were some officials from the Foreign Ministry, but it was largely a gathering of foreigners.
Q. So of course you didn't see your friend [US charge'] Bruce Laingen at the celebrations?
Mr. Taylor. No, but like everybody else I expected to see him in two or three days and then go over it and recollect now that he and Bill Sullivan are mano-a-mano… each had their embassy taken over.
Q. Was that his feeling as well?
Mr. Taylor. Ramsey Clarke, he never made it. Khomeini said that I am not interested in him why should he be allowed to come in the country.
Q. Was minister Yazdi present at the anniversary celebrations.
Mr. Taylor. No, I don't think so. I don't think the Iran… I think there were some officials from the Foreign Ministry, but it was largely a gathering of foreigners.
Q. So of course you didn't see your friend [US charge'] Bruce Laingen at the celebrations?
Mr. Taylor. No, but like everybody else I expected to see him in two or three days and then go over it and recollect now that he and Bill Sullivan are mano-a-mano… each had their embassy taken over.
I mean there was the whole nature of the city was so bizarre that although profoundly concerned about the takeover there always was a sense that anything can so this can just go away, but after a few days that became evident that it's probably no going to.
Q. How did this reflect on Ottawa?
Mr. Taylor. In Ottawa again concern, not so much about the Canadians because the Canadians had all gone, I think there were so few of them there. I think generally what does this mean to the Middle East. What about Iran's booming relationship with Israel. Generally speaking what does it mean in the broadest sense of the term. And that was what Ottawa was trying to put together along with every other capital.
Q. How did this reflect on Ottawa?
Mr. Taylor. In Ottawa again concern, not so much about the Canadians because the Canadians had all gone, I think there were so few of them there. I think generally what does this mean to the Middle East. What about Iran's booming relationship with Israel. Generally speaking what does it mean in the broadest sense of the term. And that was what Ottawa was trying to put together along with every other capital.
And by this time, we'd… there always has been a good exchange between, as I say, Washington, Ottawa, London, Canberra… so there was not much in the way of surprises in terms of what news was coming out.
Q. Within the week following the takeover what are events that take place at the Canadian embassy?
Mr. Taylor. We were trying to follow it. Myself and other colleagues were very forcefully calling for a meeting of the diplomatic corps to address this issue with limited success, but we did that together.
Q. Within the week following the takeover what are events that take place at the Canadian embassy?
Mr. Taylor. We were trying to follow it. Myself and other colleagues were very forcefully calling for a meeting of the diplomatic corps to address this issue with limited success, but we did that together.
So, that was in larger sense and then I think it was on a Tuesday or a Wednesday my colleague John Sheardown [who served as a Canadian Immigration officer] heard from the US diplomats who had managed to make their way out through the side door and that they were looking for some sort of sanctuary.
Q. At what point did you find out that the American diplomats has escaped and they were looking for a refuge?
Mr. Taylor. That would've been on Wednesday. I found out on Wednesday that they were looking for a sanctuary.
Q. Who informed you?
Mr. Taylor. My colleague John Sheerdown, who was in charge of immigration, the councilor, who knew his counterpart at the US embassy well, so he phoned John.
Q. So you received a phone call and…
Mr. Taylor. John Sheerdown, he came up to see me upstairs.
Q. Then what happened? What did he tell you?
Mr. Taylor. He just said that they were seeking help and I said well… He said that I'd offered to help them and I said fine I'll send a message to the prime minister and the foreign secretary and I'd outline what we were proposing to do.
Q. At what point did you find out that the American diplomats has escaped and they were looking for a refuge?
Mr. Taylor. That would've been on Wednesday. I found out on Wednesday that they were looking for a sanctuary.
Q. Who informed you?
Mr. Taylor. My colleague John Sheerdown, who was in charge of immigration, the councilor, who knew his counterpart at the US embassy well, so he phoned John.
Q. So you received a phone call and…
Mr. Taylor. John Sheerdown, he came up to see me upstairs.
Q. Then what happened? What did he tell you?
Mr. Taylor. He just said that they were seeking help and I said well… He said that I'd offered to help them and I said fine I'll send a message to the prime minister and the foreign secretary and I'd outline what we were proposing to do.
That is we were to take them in and then keep them. However we were going to allocate them either in the embassy, my house his house or divided.
Q. So was it Ottawa that actually instructed you initially or had you let them in before you contacted Ottawa?
Mr. Taylor. It was a close race they were on their way to our house before I sent the message?
Q. Where were they based?
Mr. Taylor. They were in an empty apartment of one of the US diplomats who was held in the embassy compounds.
Q. When did you meet them first?
Mr. Taylor. At John Sheerdowns' house in the afternoon. And in the meantime I received a message from the prime minister and foreign minister that that is fine. How ever you intend to do this go ahead.
Q. What was there general attitude? What happened at the meeting?
Mr. Taylor. They were relieved. They were happy to be in what they thought was a relatively safe and secure situation. Then we decided and phoned Pat who was at the research lab at the Iranian blood transfusion service where she was assigned, we talked about it. And so one couple came with us and three stayed at the Sheerdowns and then one joined the Sheerdowns from the Swedish embassy.
Q. During this period would you see them on a regular basis?
Mr. Taylor. The ones that lived with us just lived upstairs so we'd see them all the time, but I'd go over to see the others I would go over to see at Sheerdowns' house.
Q. What happened at these meetings with them. What was their attitude?
Mr. Taylor. Well, their attitude is pretty high expectations, when do we get home and mine is pretty guarded, we have to work out how to do this.
Q. So was it Ottawa that actually instructed you initially or had you let them in before you contacted Ottawa?
Mr. Taylor. It was a close race they were on their way to our house before I sent the message?
Q. Where were they based?
Mr. Taylor. They were in an empty apartment of one of the US diplomats who was held in the embassy compounds.
Q. When did you meet them first?
Mr. Taylor. At John Sheerdowns' house in the afternoon. And in the meantime I received a message from the prime minister and foreign minister that that is fine. How ever you intend to do this go ahead.
Q. What was there general attitude? What happened at the meeting?
Mr. Taylor. They were relieved. They were happy to be in what they thought was a relatively safe and secure situation. Then we decided and phoned Pat who was at the research lab at the Iranian blood transfusion service where she was assigned, we talked about it. And so one couple came with us and three stayed at the Sheerdowns and then one joined the Sheerdowns from the Swedish embassy.
Q. During this period would you see them on a regular basis?
Mr. Taylor. The ones that lived with us just lived upstairs so we'd see them all the time, but I'd go over to see the others I would go over to see at Sheerdowns' house.
Q. What happened at these meetings with them. What was their attitude?
Mr. Taylor. Well, their attitude is pretty high expectations, when do we get home and mine is pretty guarded, we have to work out how to do this.
They were anxious to get going, but I had to work out with Ottawa, but they were US diplomats, they weren't ours and so unilaterally Canada couldn't do anything about it.
We had to of course work with the US, the US had to concur since they were US diplomats, but by that time the communications were largely Tehran to Ottawa, Ottawa to Washington, Washington back to us through our embassy. It was a triangle.
Q. Through your embassy in Washington?
Mr. Taylor. No, I'd send everything to Ottawa and then to other missions around who had an interest, to Russia to Moscow to London…
Q. So the Russians and the Britons…
Mr. Taylor. No, no, no, to our embassies not to other countries. No, no other countries knew except the Swiss who were looking after US interests, eventually, and the New Zealanders, and the Danish and the Swedish of course
Q. So at what point do you even realize what you are going to do? Obviously day one there is not the attitude of OK let's get these people out because there wouldn't even be an idea of how to do it. How long did it take and how did this plan come up?
Mr. Taylor. After they were there a few days it became evident that it was going to take a long time to resolve the embassy crisis, and also if the embassy crisis was resolved how would we attach these six… wait just a second it's six here.
We had to of course work with the US, the US had to concur since they were US diplomats, but by that time the communications were largely Tehran to Ottawa, Ottawa to Washington, Washington back to us through our embassy. It was a triangle.
Q. Through your embassy in Washington?
Mr. Taylor. No, I'd send everything to Ottawa and then to other missions around who had an interest, to Russia to Moscow to London…
Q. So the Russians and the Britons…
Mr. Taylor. No, no, no, to our embassies not to other countries. No, no other countries knew except the Swiss who were looking after US interests, eventually, and the New Zealanders, and the Danish and the Swedish of course
Q. So at what point do you even realize what you are going to do? Obviously day one there is not the attitude of OK let's get these people out because there wouldn't even be an idea of how to do it. How long did it take and how did this plan come up?
Mr. Taylor. After they were there a few days it became evident that it was going to take a long time to resolve the embassy crisis, and also if the embassy crisis was resolved how would we attach these six… wait just a second it's six here.
So, it became clear that they would have to be taken out separately. A resolution of the embassy crisis and it's totally wouldn't necessarily have solved our problems.
Q. How jeopardized would Canadian interests have been in Iran if was found out?
Mr. Taylor. Well, I think everybody would have been declared persona non grata. The staff would've left fairly early. I'm not entirely certain how they'd view myself or some of the other people in the embassy. But, that was in the back of our minds. I was prepared to deal with that.
Q. Who constructed the plan?
Mr. Taylor. Well put together some plans, and then we needed the involvement of the Americans, so the CIA put together a plan. There were really three exfiltration plans, if you would, and eventually the two CIA officers, agents came on the Saturday before the Monday, when they left, the US diplomats who were with us opted for the CIA option which was the documentary team.
Q. What were the other plans?
Mr. Taylor. One was that they were oil filed technicians come to help the Iranians, and the other was that they were agronomists, looking at the enhancing food crops, what's happened during the Revolution, how is the nutrition… generally helping in a sense of the World Health Organization, but Canadians from the university of Guelph.
Q. So there are these three plans and basically it is the American diplomats that decided that we are going to a documentary team…
Mr. Taylor. Well, that is largely it. We were quite open. We couldn't one way or the other in any event… it seemed the best way to do it. Since I found all three as valid as the eventual one they selected that I didn't really take any exception to what they decided.
Q. So, this is very much like a James Bond movie. So, you are meeting with the American diplomats on a daily basis, and then you're communicating back and forward with Washington and Ottawa, and your devising this plan and of course they don't see each other because two of them are at your house. How is the dynamic of this how does this work?
Mr. Taylor. It was better than the television sitcom. It was a bizarre time. And then of course Pat was, my wife was still at the blood transfusion service, she was still going to work. I had other concerns than the six. So, I was away most of the day. One way or the other everything fit in or held together, if you can say that, even though some [Washington correspondent to the Montreal La Presse newspaper] Jean Pelletier had the story in general, but La Presse decided not to run with it.
Q. Did the Iranians have a count that six diplomats are missing?
Mr. Taylor. Well, some people say that the Foreign Ministry knew about it. Knew that we had the six. I'm still very doubtful.
Q. You did go to meet with Bruce Laingen at the foreign ministry, correct?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, a number of times.
Q. You had private meetings there.
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Q. What would go on?
Mr. Taylor. I'd tell him what was going on and what the mood was and what we'd heard, and what we were intending to do. They were largely up-beat meetings. I mean the last thing that the three of them wanted was for me to come there and give a depressing run-down of what's going on. You know it was bad enough being in this one great big auditorium for day after day endlessly with nothing to do but walk up and down.
Q. Did you actually have the privacy to speak about this issue? You weren't being watched or overheard?
Mr. Taylor. No we took precautions.
Q. So you were speaking in code language?
Mr. Taylor. No we'd be talking quietly or there was this music on. We had a little radio.
Q. And what was his attitude? Was he supportive of the mission? Did he say get them out or was he fearful?
Mr. Taylor. No, he was very open. He said you're the best to decide on this obviously. Whatever you think is going to work by all means, and then I welcomed their views.
Q. Did he fear the repercussions for him and the remaining Americans?
Mr. Taylor. No, he may have had that I'm sure, he was always concerned about the Americans in the embassy, but I don't think he saw their departure as particularly threatening to them.
Q. Did you have any fears?
Mr. Taylor. Not particularly. I was pretty sure we could pull this off.
Q. Ok, the CIA team shows up on a Saturday. You meet with them immediately. What goes on there?
Mr. Taylor. well, we put some stamps on visas and this sort of thing, and go over it again, how we're going to run it, and then they meet the US diplomats. And then Sunday night we have a last dinner and rehearsal. And then all leave Monday morning the two CIA people, the six US diplomats, our military police, Pat had left the night before, and then I leave with the one sergeant and the military police, one communicator and Roger Lucy, the consular. So, the four of us leave in late afternoon, but everybody is gone by ten o'clock in the morning.
Q. Well, I'm sure this is not as exciting as a wedding rehearsal.
Mr. Taylor. No, ha ha… maybe it is going to last longer, but I'm not sure. At the rehearsal the night before only maybe one or two of the diplomats would've preferred to have waited it out to see what would have happened, but that wasn't possible. I mean what were we going to do? We'd get out four and we still had two. Were back where started. So, there was no question in my mind that they weren't going to leave that next morning.
Q. Were the US diplomats given Canadian passports as well?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, in a day they had papers.
Q. How did this happen?
Mr. Taylor. Well they had credit cards, they had drivers licenses, they had passports of course, the provincial authorities were very good, and the RCMP were very helpful, and all the rules were thrown aside.
Q. How jeopardized would Canadian interests have been in Iran if was found out?
Mr. Taylor. Well, I think everybody would have been declared persona non grata. The staff would've left fairly early. I'm not entirely certain how they'd view myself or some of the other people in the embassy. But, that was in the back of our minds. I was prepared to deal with that.
Q. Who constructed the plan?
Mr. Taylor. Well put together some plans, and then we needed the involvement of the Americans, so the CIA put together a plan. There were really three exfiltration plans, if you would, and eventually the two CIA officers, agents came on the Saturday before the Monday, when they left, the US diplomats who were with us opted for the CIA option which was the documentary team.
Q. What were the other plans?
Mr. Taylor. One was that they were oil filed technicians come to help the Iranians, and the other was that they were agronomists, looking at the enhancing food crops, what's happened during the Revolution, how is the nutrition… generally helping in a sense of the World Health Organization, but Canadians from the university of Guelph.
Q. So there are these three plans and basically it is the American diplomats that decided that we are going to a documentary team…
Mr. Taylor. Well, that is largely it. We were quite open. We couldn't one way or the other in any event… it seemed the best way to do it. Since I found all three as valid as the eventual one they selected that I didn't really take any exception to what they decided.
Q. So, this is very much like a James Bond movie. So, you are meeting with the American diplomats on a daily basis, and then you're communicating back and forward with Washington and Ottawa, and your devising this plan and of course they don't see each other because two of them are at your house. How is the dynamic of this how does this work?
Mr. Taylor. It was better than the television sitcom. It was a bizarre time. And then of course Pat was, my wife was still at the blood transfusion service, she was still going to work. I had other concerns than the six. So, I was away most of the day. One way or the other everything fit in or held together, if you can say that, even though some [Washington correspondent to the Montreal La Presse newspaper] Jean Pelletier had the story in general, but La Presse decided not to run with it.
Q. Did the Iranians have a count that six diplomats are missing?
Mr. Taylor. Well, some people say that the Foreign Ministry knew about it. Knew that we had the six. I'm still very doubtful.
Q. You did go to meet with Bruce Laingen at the foreign ministry, correct?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, a number of times.
Q. You had private meetings there.
Mr. Taylor. Yes.
Q. What would go on?
Mr. Taylor. I'd tell him what was going on and what the mood was and what we'd heard, and what we were intending to do. They were largely up-beat meetings. I mean the last thing that the three of them wanted was for me to come there and give a depressing run-down of what's going on. You know it was bad enough being in this one great big auditorium for day after day endlessly with nothing to do but walk up and down.
Q. Did you actually have the privacy to speak about this issue? You weren't being watched or overheard?
Mr. Taylor. No we took precautions.
Q. So you were speaking in code language?
Mr. Taylor. No we'd be talking quietly or there was this music on. We had a little radio.
Q. And what was his attitude? Was he supportive of the mission? Did he say get them out or was he fearful?
Mr. Taylor. No, he was very open. He said you're the best to decide on this obviously. Whatever you think is going to work by all means, and then I welcomed their views.
Q. Did he fear the repercussions for him and the remaining Americans?
Mr. Taylor. No, he may have had that I'm sure, he was always concerned about the Americans in the embassy, but I don't think he saw their departure as particularly threatening to them.
Q. Did you have any fears?
Mr. Taylor. Not particularly. I was pretty sure we could pull this off.
Q. Ok, the CIA team shows up on a Saturday. You meet with them immediately. What goes on there?
Mr. Taylor. well, we put some stamps on visas and this sort of thing, and go over it again, how we're going to run it, and then they meet the US diplomats. And then Sunday night we have a last dinner and rehearsal. And then all leave Monday morning the two CIA people, the six US diplomats, our military police, Pat had left the night before, and then I leave with the one sergeant and the military police, one communicator and Roger Lucy, the consular. So, the four of us leave in late afternoon, but everybody is gone by ten o'clock in the morning.
Q. Well, I'm sure this is not as exciting as a wedding rehearsal.
Mr. Taylor. No, ha ha… maybe it is going to last longer, but I'm not sure. At the rehearsal the night before only maybe one or two of the diplomats would've preferred to have waited it out to see what would have happened, but that wasn't possible. I mean what were we going to do? We'd get out four and we still had two. Were back where started. So, there was no question in my mind that they weren't going to leave that next morning.
Q. Were the US diplomats given Canadian passports as well?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, in a day they had papers.
Q. How did this happen?
Mr. Taylor. Well they had credit cards, they had drivers licenses, they had passports of course, the provincial authorities were very good, and the RCMP were very helpful, and all the rules were thrown aside.
They each had a visa, a MasterCard, an American Express, they each had a driver's license, they each had graduation document from whichever university they went. They had in their wallets or their pockets what for instance if you were taking a trip would have in yours.
Q. So how did these reach you?
Mr. Taylor. By a diplomatic bag, a courier.
Q. How did it get through?
Mr. Taylor. Some Revolutionary Guards had attempted to open the diplomatic bag. But our instructions were to the courier that if that was the case to get back on the plane. And then they came through OK. We got them and they were available and ready.
Q. So each of the six diplomats plus the two CIA personnel had Canadian identity?
Mr. Taylor. No, the CIA, I think they had an Irish and Argentine passport.
Q. So I think that this was the only case where Canadian citizenship was granted to people so quickly…
Mr. Taylor. It was taken away so quickly. I was a northern consul. It had to be done by the cabinet.
Q. What happened on the day of the actual operation?
Mr. Taylor. So they got up at about four o'clock in the morning with an hour of sleep roughly. We had two embassy cars pick them up.
Q. At this point you were all in the same compound?
Mr. Taylor. No, no. I was at home and they were… they all left… the couple that stayed with us had stayed the night at the Sheerdowns. The Sheerdowns had gone back to Canada ten days before. So, they were there. They all agreed that this was going to be pulled off even though a couple were reluctant.
Q. So how did these reach you?
Mr. Taylor. By a diplomatic bag, a courier.
Q. How did it get through?
Mr. Taylor. Some Revolutionary Guards had attempted to open the diplomatic bag. But our instructions were to the courier that if that was the case to get back on the plane. And then they came through OK. We got them and they were available and ready.
Q. So each of the six diplomats plus the two CIA personnel had Canadian identity?
Mr. Taylor. No, the CIA, I think they had an Irish and Argentine passport.
Q. So I think that this was the only case where Canadian citizenship was granted to people so quickly…
Mr. Taylor. It was taken away so quickly. I was a northern consul. It had to be done by the cabinet.
Q. What happened on the day of the actual operation?
Mr. Taylor. So they got up at about four o'clock in the morning with an hour of sleep roughly. We had two embassy cars pick them up.
Q. At this point you were all in the same compound?
Mr. Taylor. No, no. I was at home and they were… they all left… the couple that stayed with us had stayed the night at the Sheerdowns. The Sheerdowns had gone back to Canada ten days before. So, they were there. They all agreed that this was going to be pulled off even though a couple were reluctant.
And at four o'clock in the morning they headed out in our two embassy cars. The CIA officers were there. We had one other officer quietly standing by. Roger Lucy, my colleague, was home in communication with everybody. I was at home beginning to pack and waiting. And eventually after some gives and takes they'd got off at about ten o'clock. By this time I'd sort of thrown stuff in a suitcase.
I went to the embassy with the military police officer, Sgt. [Claude] Gauthier and we smashed up the decipher machine with a big sledgehammer and destroyed all that. We'd already destroyed all our confidential documents. And I put a sign on the door temporarily closed and it never did open for eight years but that's I what put on.
Q. when did you here that they had gotten out safely?
Mr. Taylor. Ten o'clock roughly.
Q. Someone called you from oversees or…?
Mr. Taylor. Yes. They called me from the airport, then I went and had lunch at the Danish ambassadors house with the Danish ambassador and the New Zealand ambassador had been extremely helpful. And then the British ambassador who'd also been there. So, also the five of us had lunch, and then the Danish ambassador took me out at three and my colleagues came from a different car and we got on and went to Copenhagen.
Q. You weren't able to meet with Bruce before you left were you?
Mr. Taylor. No. I can't recall… I just remember going and I said we're leaving soon, I think that's all I was able to tell him.
Part six- Back home
Q. You went to the airport and left Iran without any discrepancy?
Mr. Taylor. No problem.
Q. By the time you got to Canada…
Mr. Taylor. I was in Copenhagen and then I went to Paris and by that time the news had broke.
Q. How had this unfolded?
Mr. Taylor. Well, Pelletier said the minute he sees anything untoward he's ready with the story. When the news flash came that Cyrus Vance, the Secretary of State had phoned for a McDonald thanking the Canadians. No one knew what he was thanking the Canadians for, but Pelletier and then La Presse ran the story.
Q. So, you obviously come home to a hero's welcome…
Mr. Taylor. Well I wasn't expecting it, but there was pandemonium in Paris. I went to the embassy in Paris eventually and I really did not anticipate this, never, and it was quite a wild scene.
Q. What were the repercussions. What did ultimately happen as a result of Canada getting involved to this extent?
Mr. Taylor. Well the United States was very grateful. There was an outpouring of sincerity, an outpouring of thanks of gratitude and free lunches, free beers, free bus trips, free ski tows you name it…
I don't think it changed the nature of Canada-US relations, but certainly for a moment they were very close and very warm, and a number of Americans, particularly those who were say teenagers in 1980, everybody seems to remember it. Americans have a long memory for something like this.
Q. It definitely did have a lot of repercussion in terms of Canada-Iran though…
Mr. Taylor. Yes, Canada will pay it some day, but so much has happened since then.
Q. Oh, you still believe they're going to pay for it some day?
Mr. Taylor. No, I think those days are over, because eight year after… we were closed for eight years. The Iranian embassy was open in Canada.
Q. When was the last time you saw Bruce Laingen?
Mr. Taylor. When they all came back in 444 days after the November 4th.
Q. How was that meeting?
Mr. Taylor. Oh, that was great. I saw them all and there is a picture over there of the ticker-tape parade. So, we saw their first… almost first day in New York.
Q. So you went there for their arrival?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, we were involved in all that and it was good to see a number of people of the embassy I knew of course besides Bruce.
Q. Was it an emotional day?
Mr. Taylor. Oh, yes. It was great, it was euphoric. New York was just in a great well of emotion. It was a very unusual time in Tehran. And I think again it was Khomeini and this whole episode of the hostage crisis, Khomeini's arrival the Shah's departure, just very clearly understated the vulnerability of the West.
Q. If interests were what got the West involved in Iran to begin with, as a former diplomat, do you believe that interests will in the near future once again bring these countries together?
Mr. Taylor. well, I think it's absolutely imperative if you're looking for any kind of stability in the Middle East. The sense that there is a balance of diplomacy in the Middle East has moved from Israel and the East Bank and the West Bank and Gaza into essentially I think Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran here and Pakistan down here and not to mention India here, and turkey here, and Syria nestling in the corner, but that's were it's moved the focus of Middle East diplomacy now is not the Israeli conflict it's the (Persian) Gulf.
And to have a country there, Iran, that is able to have at least a neutral relationship with the say the five big powers is essential to bring any sense or stability to that country. Iran has common interest in Afghanistan with the so called the Western countries. It can be a leveling factor in Iraq.
It has a good relationship with Turkey, and a neutrally satisfactory relationship with Russia, but there needs to be a country with some foundation some historical foundation a country that's experienced the throws of history and sees at its right some sort of regional power.
Q. when did you here that they had gotten out safely?
Mr. Taylor. Ten o'clock roughly.
Q. Someone called you from oversees or…?
Mr. Taylor. Yes. They called me from the airport, then I went and had lunch at the Danish ambassadors house with the Danish ambassador and the New Zealand ambassador had been extremely helpful. And then the British ambassador who'd also been there. So, also the five of us had lunch, and then the Danish ambassador took me out at three and my colleagues came from a different car and we got on and went to Copenhagen.
Q. You weren't able to meet with Bruce before you left were you?
Mr. Taylor. No. I can't recall… I just remember going and I said we're leaving soon, I think that's all I was able to tell him.
Part six- Back home
Q. You went to the airport and left Iran without any discrepancy?
Mr. Taylor. No problem.
Q. By the time you got to Canada…
Mr. Taylor. I was in Copenhagen and then I went to Paris and by that time the news had broke.
Q. How had this unfolded?
Mr. Taylor. Well, Pelletier said the minute he sees anything untoward he's ready with the story. When the news flash came that Cyrus Vance, the Secretary of State had phoned for a McDonald thanking the Canadians. No one knew what he was thanking the Canadians for, but Pelletier and then La Presse ran the story.
Q. So, you obviously come home to a hero's welcome…
Mr. Taylor. Well I wasn't expecting it, but there was pandemonium in Paris. I went to the embassy in Paris eventually and I really did not anticipate this, never, and it was quite a wild scene.
Q. What were the repercussions. What did ultimately happen as a result of Canada getting involved to this extent?
Mr. Taylor. Well the United States was very grateful. There was an outpouring of sincerity, an outpouring of thanks of gratitude and free lunches, free beers, free bus trips, free ski tows you name it…
I don't think it changed the nature of Canada-US relations, but certainly for a moment they were very close and very warm, and a number of Americans, particularly those who were say teenagers in 1980, everybody seems to remember it. Americans have a long memory for something like this.
Q. It definitely did have a lot of repercussion in terms of Canada-Iran though…
Mr. Taylor. Yes, Canada will pay it some day, but so much has happened since then.
Q. Oh, you still believe they're going to pay for it some day?
Mr. Taylor. No, I think those days are over, because eight year after… we were closed for eight years. The Iranian embassy was open in Canada.
Q. When was the last time you saw Bruce Laingen?
Mr. Taylor. When they all came back in 444 days after the November 4th.
Q. How was that meeting?
Mr. Taylor. Oh, that was great. I saw them all and there is a picture over there of the ticker-tape parade. So, we saw their first… almost first day in New York.
Q. So you went there for their arrival?
Mr. Taylor. Yes, we were involved in all that and it was good to see a number of people of the embassy I knew of course besides Bruce.
Q. Was it an emotional day?
Mr. Taylor. Oh, yes. It was great, it was euphoric. New York was just in a great well of emotion. It was a very unusual time in Tehran. And I think again it was Khomeini and this whole episode of the hostage crisis, Khomeini's arrival the Shah's departure, just very clearly understated the vulnerability of the West.
Q. If interests were what got the West involved in Iran to begin with, as a former diplomat, do you believe that interests will in the near future once again bring these countries together?
Mr. Taylor. well, I think it's absolutely imperative if you're looking for any kind of stability in the Middle East. The sense that there is a balance of diplomacy in the Middle East has moved from Israel and the East Bank and the West Bank and Gaza into essentially I think Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran here and Pakistan down here and not to mention India here, and turkey here, and Syria nestling in the corner, but that's were it's moved the focus of Middle East diplomacy now is not the Israeli conflict it's the (Persian) Gulf.
And to have a country there, Iran, that is able to have at least a neutral relationship with the say the five big powers is essential to bring any sense or stability to that country. Iran has common interest in Afghanistan with the so called the Western countries. It can be a leveling factor in Iraq.
It has a good relationship with Turkey, and a neutrally satisfactory relationship with Russia, but there needs to be a country with some foundation some historical foundation a country that's experienced the throws of history and sees at its right some sort of regional power.
Source: Press Tv
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